part TWO 38/357

The second part of our series on cast bullets in handguns goes into the 38 Special/357 Magnum calibers. Outside of the 22 rim fire, the 38/357 caliber is most likely the most popular caliber in the world today. Where Europe was once sold out to the 9mm as a handgun caliber (.355 caliber), over the last two decades the 38/357 started growing quickly in popularity. Many countries in the world, contrary to the handgun control types, do allow gun ownership including handguns. Since many of them don’t allow military calibers the 38 Special, 9mm, and 45 ACP are restricted...that gives the 357 free access in many nations.

As I have stated before, as a caliber is eclipsed in power by another caliber, the first caliber loses ground in general belief about it’s potentials...doubt grows as the years pass, that it is still powerful enough to do the things it has done, and done well for decades. When Doug Wesson first brought out the 357, he killed all kinds of large game with it. I was born in the 1930s...and can certainly remember the reputation of the 357 as we went into the 1940s. It was considered the most powerful handgun cartridge ever developed. With 357 commercial ammo, compared to the commercial ammo of other calibers that was true. But a number of reloaders knew that a heavy loaded 44 Special was it’s equal or better in hunting.

No one doubted in those days the 357 was powerful enough to harvest medium game...deer, elk, or black bears...in fact when it was first developed there was an outcry that it was too powerful for police to use against people! Many L.E. agencies wouldn’t go to it because of that.

As I said in part one...cast or lead bullets have been used since the beginning of the use of firearms...and the 38/357 calibers are well suited for lead. From dead soft at low velocities, all the way up to punch thru power with hard cast. For many years the commercial lead loads for the 357 were very inaccurate. Because of the factories use of lead rope for making swaged bullets with auto-stamping machines....the lead had to be fairly soft. At 357 velocities it fouled badly. That has pretty much changed today.

During the 1970s when the 357 began to really come into it’s own in L.E. circles...WW marketed a 158 grain bullet that was gilded lead...a hard copper coating. The velocity recorded in my old notes back then, states the average FPS of this load from 4 inch revolvers ran a little over 1210 fps, and around 1170 fps from the three inch barreled DEA S&W model 13. Not very impressive on paper....but it was very impressive against criminals that chose to go the hard way.

And it didn’t foul the bore after extensive firing...especially at qualifications. I made my officers qualify with full loads...no wadcutters or wimp loads to get higher scores on paper. I was worried about their ability to hit what they aim at with full loads, not paper scores. And they qualified three or more times a year....Police departments always cry about that being too expensive. Well try paying off a law suit when they show that once a year qualifications endanger the public....see how expensive that is. Expensive decisions by command personnel by the way, is why most police agencies in the 1970s finally went to the 357s over the 38 Specials.

A very fine police agency in the Southeast was sued by the widow of a police officer killed in the line of duty, sued successfully for not adequately arming her husband. The city lost millions in that suit and then another where an officer was badly wounded. They then quickly went to the 357, and other L.E. Agencies across the country also hit with similar law suits led most police departments to change over to heavier handgun calibers. Many departments didn’t like autoloaders in those days either....when I was a young investigator in New York City I was by regulation supposed to carry a 38...and I did as a back up to satisfy the regs...but my primary handgun was my own 45 auto. As a law enforcement officer and later L.E. Command officer, I always carried two handguns... always .. always a backup. 

The ammo in the 38 Colt Officer’s heavy barrel revolver I was issued in the 1960s, was the infamous 158 gr. roundnose lead. Some how that ammo got reloaded over enough Unique to push that miserable slug to 1100 fps...but it still looked like issued ammo. A number of us..’peppered’...I think the term was then, our 38 special ammo. In one police shooting investigation in New York City...while standing over the body of a newly demised criminal, the station house commanders had a long discussion about how they never thought a ‘38' could blow such large holes in a felon...My..my! The load leaded badly, but it was used only on the street, and not many shots were fired at one time. I have written about this Colt 38 revolver before, it is a the one that reappeared into my life after 28+ years. This time it stays safe, and will go to my grandchildren.

While I was the technical editor for the Cast Bullet Association for eight or nine years thru the 1980s, I learned a great deal about cast bullets. You had to research your information before you wrote it because those boys would bring you to the tool shed if you were wrong....it was a great training ground.

I know it wasn’t Rossi that started it...because a lot of Winchester 92s in 32-20 were rechambered, re-bored, re-barreled and made into good, bad, and indifferent 357 carbines. But it was Rossi that put a production 92 design leveraction on the market in 357. I got one of these little beauties back in the late 1970s. And discovered the 357 from a rifle is a whole different round in power. And the Ruger S/A in 357 magnum can contain the rifle loads...so the combination is something our early settlers of the west could only dream about. A handgun and a rifle that handled the same extremely powerful ammo.....

When you can drive a 180 grain plain base cast bullet at 1900 to 2000 fps from a rifle, with this velocity you are in good size game power levels. Using 38 Special+p brass, 14.5 grains of 2400 under a Cast Performance cast LBT and small rifle primers I get 1935 FPS and just under1500 lbs of muzzle energy. This same load from a Ruger S/A 7.5 inch barrel gives 1465 fps/854 Lbs of punch.

This is a heavy non gas checked bullet, cast right, and goes deep. It is for my rifles and Ruger S/As only. I use the 38 brass because the 180 cast is a long bullet, and I can seat it out to the crimping groove, and still have it cycle thru my Winchester leveraction and the Rossi 92. My Winchester is the high grade 24 inch barreled version and it’s accuracy is outstanding. The plain base bullets give around 100 fps more velocity than the gas checked slugs....

I took several dozen of 190 grain water tempered cast bullets and put them in a pan, brought water in the pan up to where the shoulder blends into the curve to the blunt roundnose (Lyman’s 190 grain Super police style bullet mold), and ran a butane torch flame over the noses taking the BHN hardness down from 17, to around 8 or 9 bhn. In effect making hard body/soft nose bullets. If you try this be careful as soon as the lead shows any color change at all...pull the flame from it or you will have a slumped bullet.

So made, and then loaded over 14.5 grains of 2400, I put one of them into the ribs of a good sized muley doe. From behind the ribs on the right side going forward toward the left shoulder....it exploded out of the left side just before the leg. Penetrating over 20 inches of flesh and a low big rib when exiting with a two inch hole. And it was from the Ruger S/A, not the rifle, and at a little over 65 yards. Even if it had been over 100+ yards I would have taken her...it was a set shot almost broadside. In other words she committed suicide. If it had been an elk and that is the only gun and load I had with me...I would have taken it as cleanly also.

Though there are much better calibers and loads then a 357 handgun for elk. But if necessary the right bullet and load will do the job with the worlds first magnum. This bullet is cataloged as 358430/195 grain blunt round nose/plain base. Historically this is an old Ideal design from the late 1800s/early 1900s. It was used for years as a plated bullet in 38 cases at 770 fps for Law Enforcement..called the super police load. It was neither super or a decent police load, at that velocity. But at 1400 fps plus it is a deep penetrating killer.

The all time great bullet is of course the first of the Keith designs...358429, a 173 grain Keith semi-wadcutter for the 38 special cartridge case. This bullet was later shortened in length to fit the 357 mags longer case and came in at 160+ grains...all according to the cut of the mold. Keith designed this beauty and the 44 special bullet of the same design, in the late 1920s, around 1928. Seventy plus years later it is still a sought after mold design in many calibers. Though the LBT design has shadowed it in the market place, it does not eclipse the Keith design in killing power. NEI makes several heavy weights in the Keith shape...and Lyman made a 215 grainer for the Iron Ram shooters in the 1980s. I don’t know if that mold is still available, it was an excellent bullet and does very well in my 356 Reeder/Ruger. It was designed for the late great 357 Maximum.

A man named Giles, around the time I was designing bullets for Walt Melander of NEI...designed the Giles style bullet. They were heavy for the caliber, extremely blunt and rounded. They looked like a boxing glove ready to punch...and punch they do. Just like the super police design....both the LBT and Keith designs kill about the same...mainly because they have the same size meplat. The LBTs will fly a little flatter because they don’t have the air resistant shoulder design shape...but that like many things in this business is a very small advantage, spoken of by some as some kind of big deal in favor of the LBT, it’s not.

What I find in favor of the LBT is the very fine commercial producers of this bullet...and if you don’t cast, it is the way to go. Cast Performance for example, carries bullet weights from 160 grains to over 200 grains in .355 thru .360 caliber. If you can’t find a commercial cast bullet producer that makes the bullet you want, you may be to picky. Beartooth Bullets also is a fine producer of cast bullets...in 38/357 they have two meplat sizes, the long flat nose LFN is .230 and the wide flat nose WFN is .280...both killers in rifles and handguns.

In the chart you will see that I did a study on what different primers and gas checks do to velocities. Using all Winchester primers...in Magnum small Handgun, Standard small Rifle, and Standard small Handgun...the differences were very note worthy. By the way unlike the large rifle primers being too long to fit large pistol primer pockets...small rifle primers fit small pistol primer case pockets without a problem. The real surprise for me were the differences noted in plain base and gas checked bullets. Using the above method of de-tempering the bullet noses, I could still get velocities at near 2000 fps with good bullet expansion........making the need for gas checks obsolete in heavy loads.

As stated the 357 in a rifle, or even a long barreled T/C Contender is a whole different power producing machine. Pushing a 180 grain cast bullet at near 2000 fps puts it in a power class unexpected for a 357 magnum. And the pressure is easily contained in my Winchester 94. The 35 Remington pushes the various 180 grain jacketed bullets to 2200 to 2300+ fps. And no one every said it was a wimpy deer and elk rifle caliber.

I will give you a Paco secret. I have a load from my 24 inch barreled rifle that is an absolute varmint supreme slayer...for a pistol caliber. 24 grains of H110 under a 115gr. JHP in 357 mag brass with rifle primers gives just under 2500 fps! (This bullet is sold in bulk by MidwayUSA). A .222 will do 3000 fps but that’s with a bullet less than half the .357 mags 115 grain weight. This bullet is .356 caliber, but the bore in the Win 94 is tight. Even if it wasn’t, the pressure bumps it up to fill the bore without a problem, and accuracy is exceptionally good. In the Ruger Bisley this load gives 1550 fps...certainly a magnum velocity for the bullet weight. It’s not the most efficient powder for this bullet from the handgun...but it gives accuracy and power and is a good varmint cross over load for both guns.

Bullet drop for the 115 grain 357 at 2500 fps is not as bad as one might think for a stubby bullet. In actual drop tests not from a chart...set to strike 3 inches high at 100 yards...it is 1 inch high at 200 and down 22 inches at 300 yards. And it is still carrying 300 lbs of punch at around 1150 fps, a 38 special +P at the muzzle. With a small scope my outward limit is around 250 yards at living things....you should see what this bullet does to crows and ravens...wow! It’s not a cast bullet but gilded like the Gold Dot, but it is one of the better .357 bullets. I like it better than the 125 grainers because it has a more streamlined shape.....

We all have are favorites...mine for deer from a handgun is not a cast bullet. They will do the job and well, but for small deer they punch in and then out, even with soft noses. I want a quicker kill and a fast ‘drop the animal to the ground load’. They 180 gr XTP or the Remington scallop point are my choices. They too will punch out on deer, but they do a great deal more internal damage than any cast bullet...outside of 158 grain hollow pointed gas checked types maybe. But they are slow to make and have limited range. When the caliber is as small as the .357/8 I feel the heavier bullets are much better, especially if you think there is a possibility your range may be long for some shots. Or a large animal might jump into range while hunting deer. In some areas that happens with feral hogs often.

Remember I didn’t say 357 cast bullets don’t do well on small deer.. especially at heavy velocities and with a soft nose....it’s just that I prefer the thin jacketed 180 grainers, (of which I have several thousands). I have taken a lot of deer in weights from around 60 lbs to well over 250 lbs with cast bullets. Cleanly and with certainty.

Looking thru several cast bullet books I have found 15 different bullet weights and 7 different nose shapes for cast 38/357s. And that I’m sure is a small sample. There are a lot of good cast bullet producers out there I don’t know of.....there are several reloading books I can recommend. First of course is my own LEVER&HANDGUNS (Paco @ P.O.Box 17211 Tucson, Az. 85731 $19.95) Lyman’s Reloading Book #47...it has both cast and jacketed loads for almost every caliber rifle and handgun. Mic McPherson’s METALLIC CARTRIDGE RELOADING 3^rd Edition, and RCBS’s CAST MANUAL....certainly all the ‘BackIssues’ of Sixgunner for the very good articles by Jim Taylor, John Taffin, myself and others. Between the three of us alone there are nearly 200 articles...and of course there are other very fine articles by other writers there also.

Cast bullets and the 38/357 calibers were made for each other with over 100 years of development....

THIS CHART WAS DEVELOPED IN MY GUNS ONLY...CAN’T SPEAK FOR THE STRENGTH OF YOUR GUNS OR RELOADING PRACTICES...SO START LOW AND WORK UP SAFELY . (USE ONLY VERY HEAVY AND STRONG GUNS.)

CHART

HANDGUN LOAD/POWDER BULLET/WT. CASE/PRIMER VELOCITY/FT.LBS

RUGER/SA 7 ½ " 15.5/2400 170 KEITH CB 357/RIFLE PRM 1497V/846 M.E.

RUGER 18/2400 110 JHP 38 SPC/MAG PRM 1819V/785 M.E.

RUGER 15.5/2400 170 KEITH CB 38 SPC/MAG PRM 1601V/969 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 18/2400 110 JHP 38 SPC/MAG PRM 2208V/1182 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 17/2400 148 JHP 38 SPC/MAG PRM 2016V/1317 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 17/2400 170 KEITH CB 38 SPC/MAG PRM 2001V/1511 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 24/H11O 115/.356JHP 357MAG/R PRM 2497V/ 1498M.E.

RUGER 24/H110 115/.356JHP 357MAG/R PRM 1550V/ 612 M.E.

RUGER 16.5/2400 170 KEITH CB 357/RIFLE PRM 1629V/1001 M.E.

S&W DA 8 3/8" 15/2400 170 KEITH CB 38 SPC/MAG PRM 1538V/893 M.E.

RUGER 15/2400 180 CB FN PB 38 SPC/R PRM 1501V/900 M.E.

RUGER 15/2400 180 CB FN GCHK 38 SPC/R PRM 1464V/856 M.E.

RUGER 14.5/2400 180 CB FN PB 38 SPC/R PRM 1465V/ 854 M.E.

RUGER 14.5/2400 180 CB FN GCHK 38 SPC/R PRM 1428V/ 815 M.E.

S&W DA 8 3/8" 15/2400 180 CB FN PB 38 SPC/R PRM 1494V/ 892 M.E.

S&W DA 8 3/8" 15/2400 180 CB FN GCHK 38 SPC/R PRM 1443V/ 832 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 14.5/2400 180 CB FN GCHK 38 SPC/R PRM 1835V/1346 M.E.

RUGER 16.5/2400 148 JHP 38 SPC/MAG PRM 1577V/ 818 M.E.

WIN/94 RIFLE 24" 14.5/2400 180 CB FN PB 38 SPC/R PRM 1935V/1496 M.E.